 Posted 7/11/2008 9:28:01 AM
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My dear Tocky,
This all began with a simple comment request.
This feature exists to be used, does it not?
In NO WAY WHATSOEVER did I disparage you or call question to your character, I simply sought a little more clarity on your vote beyond the rubber-stamped "Lacking Interest" comment.
I welcome all comments, positive AND negative. private AND public.
I don't just post "safe" images that fit a formula or play to a popular theme. I post images that matter to me and ones that I feel are worthy of a broader audience. While some may not share my affinity for a particular shot, the majority of my submissions have been well received.
While some have pointed to voters who are stuck on a "7" vote, there seems to be an equal number of voters who have the same "problem" with the "5" key.
I only ask that images be considered on their individual merits (for more than 3 seconds) and not a lump vote that is applied to ones that aren't necessarily a voter's "cup of tea".
(***Not that you are a perpetrator of this behavior, but this frustrating activity has become more evident of late.)
I appreciate the time and consideration of all of those who participate (voting AND posting) on what I feel is one of the finest Photo sites on the net.
Once again, I mean no ill will to you or anyone else on this site, or on this planet.
I hope this has cleared the air between us.
Truce?
Kevin
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Posted 7/11/2008 10:07:14 AM
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No truce, not yet. You seem unable to speak without implying that I didn't vote carefully and honestly. May I have your permission to download your photo for my own use for comparison purposes. If you don't mind, I might try some edits and show them to you only.
Your work is quite different from mine. The action and the subject are paramount in what you do. For me it is the image. It may be a great worn out baseball, but in my opinion, it is not a great photograph. I have learned one very important thing from this experience. I will never again give a stock comment with a low vote, I will always speak directly to the person and the photo. For that I apologize.
I have already accorded you the respect you deserve for the bulk of your photos, with my votes and by stating directly in a previous comment reply that I think your work is outstanding.
I have taken a couple of shots of a worn out baseball in hopes of showing you what I think makes a better "photograph". Again, I will wait for your permission on having a closer look at your photo.
Do you mind?
Tocky
Tocky B.
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Posted 7/11/2008 11:27:12 PM
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Another newbie perspective (if I'm reading this right Tocky - you are new also?) ... when I first joined I did a bit of reading in the Forums and was instantly "scared" to start voting (worried I'd offend someone). It does seem like some people who receive low scores can get a bit "nasty". There have been times where I've actually stopped my voting session rather than score a photo below five because I fear the nasty note to follow (yes, maybe I'm thin-skinned as well). I know it's not the right way to go about it, but sometimes I just don't want the hassle.
Personally I think the entire site votes a little high -- and that includes the votes I receive ... maybe I'm just harder on the photographs (including my own), but I think way to many 7's are handed out. While I wished I could score 8+ votes all the time I actually appreciate when I get a low score because I feel like that person was trying to be honest and not caving to the "norm". I have received a few fives on photos where everyone else was voting 8, but that's okay. For the fives I sent a simple request that said "Thanks for your honesty, do you have any suggestions to help better this photo?". That's it ... I don't feel there is any need to tell the person that other people voted higher or to remind them on HOW to vote, or to tell them why I think it's a good photo - they have a different opinion, so let it be, just ask, straight forward, for their comments (and when they follow up with a comment send them an honest thank-you).
Photography is a form of art and everyone sees through different eyes - all I want is to understand how that voter is seeing my photo so that I can gain a fuller perspective. I have one photo that has received everything from a 5 to a 10 ... very extreme voter range, but that's how art works - what one loves another hates - so why does everyone get their feathers so ruffled on the low scores???
Sail Around the World
Snaps360 Photo Blog
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Posted 7/12/2008 5:46:37 AM
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ktr (7/11/2008)
Another newbie perspective (if I'm reading this right Tocky - you are new also?) ... when I first joined I did a bit of reading in the Forums and was instantly "scared" to start voting (worried I'd offend someone). It does seem like some people who receive low scores can get a bit "nasty". There have been times where I've actually stopped my voting session rather than score a photo below five because I fear the nasty note to follow (yes, maybe I'm thin-skinned as well). I know it's not the right way to go about it, but sometimes I just don't want the hassle.
Personally I think the entire site votes a little high -- and that includes the votes I receive ... maybe I'm just harder on the photographs (including my own), but I think way to many 7's are handed out. While I wished I could score 8+ votes all the time I actually appreciate when I get a low score because I feel like that person was trying to be honest and not caving to the "norm". I have received a few fives on photos where everyone else was voting 8, but that's okay. For the fives I sent a simple request that said "Thanks for your honesty, do you have any suggestions to help better this photo?". That's it ... I don't feel there is any need to tell the person that other people voted higher or to remind them on HOW to vote, or to tell them why I think it's a good photo - they have a different opinion, so let it be, just ask, straight forward, for their comments (and when they follow up with a comment send them an honest thank-you).
Photography is a form of art and everyone sees through different eyes - all I want is to understand how that voter is seeing my photo so that I can gain a fuller perspective. I have one photo that has received everything from a 5 to a 10 ... very extreme voter range, but that's how art works - what one loves another hates - so why does everyone get their feathers so ruffled on the low scores???
Right you are on all counts and this forum is a great place for us to find common ground as well as air grievances. The truth is, I think peoples' subjective impressions matter and what we are looking to find out is which photos average a certain level based on a large number of those impressions. the weighted voting means that the good guys impressions matter more and I like that, too. Once I get over this little mini-feud (if you check his profile, you will see that his ratio of votes made to votes received is very poor, by the way), I'm going to try to get up the courage to unmask my votes. I am working hard on my comments for low votes and am finding that if you do them the right way, most people are fine about it. And I ask politely as well for comments on received low votes.
Thanks for weighing in. I'm going to put you on my buddy list if that's OK....
Tocky
Tocky B.
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Posted 7/12/2008 8:06:15 AM
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Hey that's great ... I didn't even know you could have buddies. And don't go looking at my voter ratio today ... I've been away from the internet for 3 weeks - and OUCH did my ratio every go down ... I've got to get voting!
But anyway, I think the way to go is to vote your gut and then try and put some constructive comments ... maybe even the good and the bad kind of thing. Then people see where you are coming from and don't get as upset over the low score ... of course there will always be some who just don't agree and for the most part that's where a thicker skin comes in handy!
Good Luck!
Sail Around the World
Snaps360 Photo Blog
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Posted 7/12/2008 8:28:27 PM
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ktr (7/11/2008)
Another newbie perspective (if I'm reading this right Tocky - you are new also?) ... when I first joined I did a bit of reading in the Forums and was instantly "scared" to start voting (worried I'd offend someone). It does seem like some people who receive low scores can get a bit "nasty". There have been times where I've actually stopped my voting session rather than score a photo below five because I fear the nasty note to follow (yes, maybe I'm thin-skinned as well). I know it's not the right way to go about it, but sometimes I just don't want the hassle.
Personally I think the entire site votes a little high -- and that includes the votes I receive ... maybe I'm just harder on the photographs (including my own), but I think way to many 7's are handed out. While I wished I could score 8+ votes all the time I actually appreciate when I get a low score because I feel like that person was trying to be honest and not caving to the "norm". I have received a few fives on photos where everyone else was voting 8, but that's okay. For the fives I sent a simple request that said "Thanks for your honesty, do you have any suggestions to help better this photo?". That's it ... I don't feel there is any need to tell the person that other people voted higher or to remind them on HOW to vote, or to tell them why I think it's a good photo - they have a different opinion, so let it be, just ask, straight forward, for their comments (and when they follow up with a comment send them an honest thank-you).
Photography is a form of art and everyone sees through different eyes - all I want is to understand how that voter is seeing my photo so that I can gain a fuller perspective. I have one photo that has received everything from a 5 to a 10 ... very extreme voter range, but that's how art works - what one loves another hates - so why does everyone get their feathers so ruffled on the low scores???I agree with your way of thinking. I wish more people were that way though. I know Tocky has sent me a few comments too and thats all we can ask for. I want to learn how to improve my pictures. Everyone has something to learn. The best way is to get feeback from those who take the time to judge your images. The problem lies on those who refuse to be honest on their voting and behave in a childish manner by creating ghost accounts in order to vote low on images they consider a "threat" for an award on a particular category. It takes a bit of time to develop the thickness of skin necessary to deal with those kind of voters. I have noticed that if you do not give a high vote on an ok image that the author thinks deserves more and that person does not have any morals or ethics to deal with it, then you start getting a bunch of 5's under a masked voter with a 1 weight. Some of them go as far as voting their own images 10's perhaps not realizing you can very easily see what they voted on. Your requests for comments go ignored and theres nothing that can be done about it. That part is what gets to you. I just deleted almost all my images and plan to start new. Maybe this time I can try to only upload images that are very diferent from each other so it is harder for those people to figure out who they are voting on by the similarity on the images or a particular style. I hate having to try and be sneaky about art. I kind of contradicts what it is supposed to be like. But I really want to learn how to be a well rounded photographer and there are a few very nice talented people on this site who can help me along.
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Posted 7/12/2008 11:59:05 PM
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Since it was brought up about entering every category I thought I would add that it helps make it harder to figure out who you are voting for which is good but I think it really helps everything because not only does it present a great challenge but it also teaches you how hard some of those shots are to get, and it helps teach you what to look for and what to overlook when voting.
After much trial and error and no entries that are yet worthy, I really respect the photographer that can create a great photograph of a deep purple, yellow or bright pink flower.1
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Posted 7/13/2008 12:13:21 AM
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I agree with you Jill. I also think it is good because it challenges you and sometimes you find you enjoy shooting in areas you didn't think you would like as well.
I'm really curious though, why you say that about those 3 colors and flowers?
Linda
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