 Posted 7/7/2008 7:49:32 AM
|
|
|
|
From what I have read so far, the site issue that is the main concern is that people become members, then they become inactive. They could either fade from the site, get discouraged, or just try to participate on a limited basis. 10% of the subscribers use the site to their advantage and have benefited from being here. The newcomers that arrive do not realize it takes awhile to acclimate to the environment and some get discouraged before they even begin.
It is essential that the new members vote. It is important to learn to break away from what one person sees as their 'style' and vote for other styles and techniques. Sometimes voting helps a person define their style or what they feel is important in their work. Sometimes it helps a person learn what is important to the people here at DailyAwards. Discouraging voting of any kind, even if it annoyingly low votes or marathon votes should not be the issue.
What I can see is that people join, they upload photos leave them there and don't come back so that there is no activity on the account except for the photos that are in the voting pool getting votes but no voting is happening from that member.
Other sites have policies about how often you use an account before it becomes canceled. If you do not vote or upload a photo or access your account within so much time, your membership is first in-active, an e-mail is sent out then it is canceled if there is still no response or activity. Usually 30 days for the warning and 45 for the cancellation.
Even while on vacation, in todays world there is access to the internet. From cafe's and restaurants, libraries, malls and markets, hotels, even cell phones have access to this site. The vote ratio needs to be based on user activity within the last thirty to forty-five days. If someone hasn't used their account in that amount of time they are probably not going to use the account. Most people do not cancel their membership, they just drift away.
If the non-active accounts (no activity for over 45 days) were not there would the voting ratio become more even? It is nice to say that the site has over 5,000 members but how many of those are accounts that have not been used because of lost member names or passwords? How many accounts are actively being used compared to accounts just sitting there doing nothing but receiving votes for months and months.
It can still say there have been over 5,000 memberships but when it comes down to it, the active users, who log in to their accounts on a regular basis should be the only thing influencing the site wide voting ratio instead of the overall memberships. Even while being on vacation a person can access the site or send notification that it is a temporary absence. Most normal people do not take month long vacations or they would get fired.
Just something to ponder that feels like it is being over-looked. 
|
|
|
Posted 7/13/2008 3:36:43 PM
|
|
|
|
| I don't think I've ever seen a photo reflective of a 2, but I have seen, in my short membership here that 5's are given out pretty frequently. I have to believe in many of those cases that it's a means to knock ones average down, especially when I ask what I could have done to improve the photo and never receive a response. I've only give out a few 5's and always... whenever possible explained myself and ALWAYS stay unmasked. I really feel that everyone should at one point, or another in the voting be accountable for their vote. If it's a valid 4, 5, or even 2 and you can give a reasonable critique, then so be it, but don't hide behind a mask. I left one site because of that very reason... it's a heck of a way to get along with people who share a common love. Anyway, I don't carry much weight, ha, ha, so I'll let it rest at that. I do love the site and hope it stays civil. Most Sincerely; Frank / 4fun 
|
|
|
Posted 7/13/2008 9:11:01 PM
|
|
|
|
[b]...but I have seen, in my short membership here that 5's are given out pretty frequently. I have to believe in many of those cases that it's a means to knock ones average down, especially when I ask what I could have done to improve the photoand never receive a response. ....
... If it's a valid 4, 5, or even 2 and you can give a reasonable critique, then so be it, but don't hide behind a mask.
Most Sincerely;
Frank / 4fun
Everyone has to start somewhere and set their base/average score at something. If they start with a 6 then one or two flaws are going make a photo a 5 or less. It isn't an issue of targeting, it is an issue that the base score is 6.
The site says the average or score is 5.5 New members start out believing that 5 is a good thing to score a photo then they get attacked for doing it. Some people who are really full of themselves think a 7 is offensive. I think that a lot of people are reading the comments and not associating them with the voter that gave them a low score, then when they request a comment and do not get feedback it is creating hard feelings. Even though the comment has already been made.
A lot of people think that they are being harassed or targeted because they receive a lower score but if you go with the theory that a 5.5 is the site wide average then 5 is a normal number and 7 or 8 is extremely high. I do not think that it is right to assume a 5 is a vindictive vote because we can not know what score the voters base number is, although I am not stupid enough to think it doesn't happen.
|
|
|
Posted 7/13/2008 11:03:56 PM
|
|
|
|
| I'm new, I vote as often as possible and as honestly as possible. I left the only other site I belong to today and plan to remain active on this one alone, but just as I write this, I responded to a 5 vote from a brand new member with no photos posted and I'm not real thrilled with these childless games. I'm not here to get even with anyone, or cause anyone's score/average to drop based on my rating and I'm just looking for the same in return. If this turns into a bunch of petty kids trying to, pardon the pun, "Even the score", then I guess I'll just give up this venue completely, which will be a shame, because 90% of you are great people with wonderful outlooks. Anyway, after answering his quick comment response, which he sent 3 times, "Lacks Interest", I'll probably get kicked off... so be it. Very Disappointed; Frank Ertl / 4fun (or at least it used to be)
|
|
|
Posted 7/14/2008 1:47:38 AM
|
|
|
|
I'm pretty new as well, and here are my thoughts:
First there are a lot places where there is not usable internet ... but than again most people probably aren't sailing around the world and still trying to participate in sites like this  so you are right - people could vote even on vacation. What MIGHT be helpful is a vacation status. I asked about something like this before because I was getting ready for a passage and would be gone for three weeks ... what I wanted was to be able to put a "hold" on my account so that I couldn't receive votes until I was back in "civilization". I didn't want to archive my images because they hadn't really received enough votes yet and were doing well. In the end I spent 3-4 days before I left trying to get in a lot of votes (still I don't think I every voted more than 200 in one day - so how someone voted 1,000 amazes me), so that my ratio would be high and sustain me during my time away. Then (now) that I am back around internet I am again trying to vote-vote-vote. Also I have not uploaded any new images and have finally archived my older images ... my plan is to not upload anything new until I get my voter ratio even (that only seems fair to the site). But some type of official "vacation/hold" status might make things easier. Then again I realize I'm in a unique situation and don't expect any site to cater to my needs when I'm the odd one out!!! I totally agree there is no reason for no activity for 30-45 days.
As a newbie the way I vote (and please tell me if this is wrong) is that I consider a 5 right around average. The photo is okay, nothing really wrong, but nothing really pops out either (it's a fine line between a 5 & 6). From there I go down (noise, blur, bad comp, etc) or go up. I figure a 6 means "yeah, your photo is just above average but doesn't stand out". A 7 means there is at least some feature to the photo that makes it "better". 8 and higher need to be well above average (and I must say there are a lot of those on this site). Rarely do I come across anything below a 4. I look at the full sized images often, but not always, and if I vote lower after looking at the full size I usually say so in the comment.
Pros & Amateur - didn't realize there were pros on this site - that would explain why the photos are so great! Now I don't feel so bad for not being up there with the rest of them!!! I don't think we need to be separated (I am very much an amateur) ... it gives me something to stride towards. I suppose though that people have different reasons for joining the site - me I don't care much about winning, I'm all about the comments & improving (of course winning means good scores, so in sense I do want to "win"). I don't want to be discounted by a pro though just because I'm not one ... there's nothing worse than the "well they obviously don't know what they are talking about" attitude, just because I'm an amateur instead of a pro. (BTW I haven't experienced that attitude myself - my time so far has been great - but I've seen some of it in other cases reading through the forums). And I still go back to the photography is art theory - what one hates another will love.
Also maybe people are voting without photos yet posted because they want to see what others have put up and get a sense for the site (to help them select their own photos to post). It can be a big jump for an amateur to throw up some photos for others to review ...
And I agree with Tonka ... even in the days before digital and before photoshop, photographers could manipulate photographs in the dark room - does that make a good photo any "less good"??? I personally don't think so, I don't care how much touch-up or change a person makes to a photograph, if it's good it's good .. period. In the digital age it must be recognized that "Photoshop" is now part of the digital photograph workflow.
Anyway that's my two-cents ... personally I enjoy this site and look forward to my time on land when I can participate more fully.
Sail Around the World
Snaps360 Photo Blog
|
|
|
Posted 7/14/2008 4:03:38 AM
|
|
|
|
We don't expect athletes to just jump from high school level to pro status immediately. Until this issue is addressed we will continue to have these problems.
I think the problem is that people lose interest in the site when they see the pro's constantly winning the daily, weekly, and monthly awards.This is not a bad thing, I'm just saying we need to separate the pros from the amatuers ......
I wouldn't necessarily agree that it's only the pro's that are constantly winning, but I agree with your theory.
I have contacted Eric on a few occasions to suggest some kind of league/division tables (as in UK football etc) but apparently this would involve a major restructure and is impractical.
"...I'm normally not a praying man, but if you're up there, please save me Superman. ..."
|
|
|
Posted 7/14/2008 4:29:21 AM
|
|
|
|
| There are a few "Pros" here and a some other people that have made money off photography but I would challenge the assumption that the Pros win the awards. By any measure they are no more represented that the rest of us.
|
|
|
Posted 7/14/2008 4:54:26 AM
|
|
|
|
4fun (7/13/2008)
Anyway, after answering his quick comment response, which he sent 3 times, "Lacks Interest", I'll probably get kicked off... so be it.
Very Disappointed;
Frank Ertl / 4fun (or at least it used to be)
I got hit by that voter too. He voted 200 something times and sent out that many comments. Managed to pound all of my images and leave more than one comment on them. - I reported it to Eric. 
"WHEN LIFE HANDS YOU A LEMON....STOMP THE CRAP OUT OF IT AND PLEA INSANITY!!" 
| | | |
