 Posted 2/18/2008 2:00:03 PM
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Starting a fresh thread with this concept from another thread....
Admin (2/18/2008)
hahn23 (2/17/2008)
...One of the "skewing" developments over time was to allow weight to be gathered, without limit, by flooding many categories with many images. A category win is an accomplishment, but the daily, weekly, monthly and annual wins are much more important and prestigious. The members who have achieved many hundreds of weight points from hundreds of category wins and few longer duration wins are improperly positioned with much power to throttle the competition. Had we long ago put a cap on weight points from category wins, we could have kept things in perspective.
If we could do it all over again, there should have been 1/10 the weight allowed from category wins and 5x the weight granted from the longer duration win. Then, we would have had a weighted system which was truly merit based.
This is sound reason. I do not disagree that the power granted by the category wins may be disproportionate to the effort required. I prefer discussions that call out specific issues such as this and start a discussion of possible solutions. Remember, DA is a living project. This concept is new and your admin is open to change.
To start the discussion - how about rolling off the weight gained from category wins but making the higher awards permanent?
Eric, your proposal would be a refreshing step in the right direction. Thanks for weighing in on the issue. I strongly support the idea of putting weight gained from higher awards in proper perspective with weight gained from category wins. Just fine with me to make the more rare award weights permanent. And, let the much more numerous category and sig category award weights be transitory..... with time specific expiration. Six months seems right. I would not object to three month expiration.
I think it could be a very healthy purging of everyone's portfolio, weight-wise, to let 'em go. Should provide stimulus to keep on improving one's photography. Would offer hope to the newbies. Lots of reasons to like the concept. I'm very happy we are getting at this. I think it represents new life.
 My Top 24
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Posted 2/18/2008 2:58:49 PM
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| I'm not real sure that making any weight permanent is a good idea. It may take a long time but at some point it will become a problem. I don't pretend to know the "proper" time line but something on the order of 2 or 3 years seems about right.
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Posted 2/18/2008 3:12:54 PM
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Here is how I see the specifics that need to be worked out:
Duration of:
- Cat, Daily, Weekly, Monthly, Annual
- Where would we display 'full' weight (i.e. on the profile page as FYI)
- Would we uncap weight (remove the 75 vote restraint)? I say yes.
Probably more that I cannot think of right now.
Just as framework. I favor this concept in some form over the current weight formula (75 votes to unlock a point of weight). So, I see this discussion as nailing down the specifics of how we would make this work. If you strongly feel there are better methods (earlier there was mention of a ranking system, for example) then please contrast your proposal with the proposal here and explain why it is superior.
Eric
DailyAwards.com
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Posted 2/18/2008 3:22:15 PM
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Admin (2/18/2008)
To start the discussion - how about rolling off the weight gained from category wins but making the higher awards permanent?.
I think the better long term fix would be to have all award points ROLL over set periods of time. It could save having to address the same problems again at a future date. . About 2/3's of the site's annual award points come from the Category contests. In less than two years a wide weight differential has developed. Should the Front Page awards remain permanent, that differential will continue to grow. All be it not at the current pace, but one day we could again be faced with having to prune the weight from excess advanced awards. . While term limits for category award points would be a welcomed step, my thinking would be to establish parameters that address all the pitfalls of permanent unlimited weight accumulation.
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Profile - Top 24 - All Images
Nikon D300 - Nikon D70 - Nikkor 20mm - Nikkor 50mm - Nikkor 24-120mm - Nikkor 28-70mm - Nikkor 85mm - Nikkor 80-200mm - Nikkor 70-300mm - Sigma 400mm
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Posted 2/18/2008 3:43:02 PM
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Annual and monthly awards are very difficult to win. (I currently have zero.) These awards are treasures and derived weight from these should last for 5 years or more. Mostly because these images represent top notch photographic effort and peer recognition. These are the showcase images for DA. Weight to the photographer from winning these awards adds credibility to the weighted voting system.
Weekly awards weight should persist for maybe two years. Daily award weight could persist for one year.... or maybe 18 months.
Regarding the votes for weight requirement: That could be eliminated and no one would cry. Especially true if we engage in this major revision of the weight system.
My Top 24
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Posted 2/18/2008 4:11:36 PM
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How does this look for a scale?
Category: 6 months
Daily: 18 months
Weekly: 3 years
Monthly: 4 years
Annual: 5 years
Eric
DailyAwards.com
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Posted 2/18/2008 4:24:19 PM
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Admin (2/18/2008)
How does this look for a scale?
Category: 6 months
Daily: 18 months
Weekly: 3 years
Monthly: 4 years
Annual: 5 years
I'd go with:
Category: 6 months
Daily: 9 months
Weekly: 1 year
Monthly: 2 years
Annual: 5 years
Truth be told, a single image that climbs the ladder is going to build some serious points in comparison to others.
I'd really like to see the raw numbers so that we could run a "what if".
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Posted 2/18/2008 7:20:54 PM
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Right now - assuming that a) the site is two years old b) no award winning images have been deleted, there would be 77,760 awarded points outstanding.
With the time frame offered in Eric's post there would be a maximum of 39,336 award points after five years and about 33,960 points outstanding today after two years.
With the time frame offered in ~'s post there would be a maximum of 25,470 award points after five years and 24,894 points outstanding today after two years.
I feel the key is holding a shorter term for the category awards. They control 2/3 of the sites annual award point distribution.
One possible way to hold down the accumulation of excess points build up of a very top image - would be to only allow it to carry it's highest single points award value.
Besides the time allowance for points to be retained, an image could only hold points for it's highest level reached. When a category winner earns a Daily Award, it will not combine the two points totals but rather only hold the 8 points of the Daily Award. A signature daily winner earns a weekly award. It would be valued at 32 points only and not a combination of all its awards to date. That could be one way to reduce accumulation - don't know if it is a good idea or not - just an idea...
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This would be a way to allow the higher level awards to have a longer life without overpowering the field.
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Profile - Top 24 - All Images
Nikon D300 - Nikon D70 - Nikkor 20mm - Nikkor 50mm - Nikkor 24-120mm - Nikkor 28-70mm - Nikkor 85mm - Nikkor 80-200mm - Nikkor 70-300mm - Sigma 400mm
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Posted 2/18/2008 11:15:59 PM
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