 Posted 2/13/2008 5:04:33 AM
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| Glynn, thank you for staying around, Richard thank you for staying around, I wish others had stayed around as well .. you all have contributed greatly and inspired so many... DA is not the same..... There are a couple of positive changes but the atmosphere is not the same,,I dont even know what it was like before I got here but when I did, I was lovin it.. You provide a great service for those of us who admire your works.. and your contributions mean more than you know to some of us. ( I missed this too until this morning, but I gotta get to school now. )
I may not always be wRIGHTbut I am never wrong Profile -  Top 24 - 
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Posted 2/13/2008 5:26:01 AM
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My sentiment echoes and reiterates everything Glynn has said. We've both experienced the same accomplishments and humiliations. It's been a weird mix, to say the least. I'm glad Glynn has decided to continue to participate. I will, too! However.....
Data secrecy, masked voting and anonymous comments allow for significant mischievous behavior. Not everyone uses the culture of opaqueness to conceal unfair and non-objective behavior, but many strategically stab from the darkness.
Furthermore, there are pattern voters, casting a tiny range of scores. Frankly, the crime of pattern voting is one of the biggest weaknesses here. Some of this comes from speed voting. Some comes from strategic voting. Suggest pattern voting be banned, asap.
Related to pattern voting is "upside down" voting. There are some voters who vote high on very mediocre images and vote low on the top rated images in the contest. This preserves their apparent vote distribution and average vote cast, but it conceals their effort to elevate the performance of their own images by chopping off the best images at the knees.
So, Admin has said, for a long time. strategic votes don't matter and that low ball votes are insignificant. That could be true if the opaqueness were removed, but is not true with the cloak of secrecy concealing the most blatant offenders.
I'll return to voting and critique-ing eventually. Not sure about submitting more images. I've been happier without the daily aggravations. Wishing and hoping for some reversions to the DailyAwards I used to know.
 My Top 24
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Posted 2/13/2008 7:05:53 AM
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Richard, I have been extremely disappointed with the voting over the past month or so here at DA but I have a problem. Maybe I am too dense to understand how anyone can strategically vote. We can no longer see active images in anyone's portfolio. I guess the only way I can see this is possible is to look at the winners on the homepage every day and try to remember who belongs to what shot?
How would you purposely give high scores to mediocre images unless you just did it not knowing who the photographer was? And why would you? I'm not being smart - just trying to understand. I know sometimes I give high scores and after I vote, see the overall score is much lower than what I scored the shot. I can assure you that I am completely honest with my voting. I may not always get it right but each vote I cast is sincere. Sometimes it doesn't matter to me as much if there are problems with a shot as much as the overall effect just making me say "wow".
Another question is how can you know who voted what on someone else's images now? I have never had a really good grasp of how things work here - I truly just love to look at the pictures and that is why I am here 15months later. Also, I won't lie - I so enjoy getting nice feedback on my own stuff. I still get many nice scores and comments on some of my stuff and when it comes from someone who's name I recognize and who's work I have much respect for, it means so much to me. I remember when I received a 10 from you on my "skimmers" shot (which I later changed to "terns" after finding out I'd mistakenly id'd the birds).
I can't tell you how thrilled I was that day. You will never fully understand what that meant to me. I was so dejected over the scores I was receiving on my shots and just about to give up. As nice as it was to get a 10 from someone who I consider to be one of a very few outstanding photographers I know of, your comments on that shot meant even more to me. But do you know that that shot was auto-archived? That it received 2-5's, 25-6's and 85-7's? It also got 39 votes of 8 or higher but out of 151 votes, 65% of them were 7 or lower? Now, I know there's nothing wrong with a 7 but this was what I considered to be one of the best shots I've ever taken and, after your vote and comment, I was convinced I was right.
One of my active shots currently is one I was so happy with. It has done well with some but it has 4-5's (all standard votes), 4-6's (one is a signature) and an overall 7.7something. Seems like I can't buy an overall 8 on anything these days.
And I can't even tell you how many comments I've had lately about "poor composition", "lacking interest". I even had an anonymous comment that one of my lake shots should have been in landscape instead of aquatic. True, there was shoreline and trees in the shot but why in the world would that make it a landscape when there is a lake in the center of the shot?
I'm just quickly becoming totally fed up with this place these days. But when I think of leaving I don't know where in the world I would go to take it's place. Leaving sure would leave a huge hole 
Leighann
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Posted 2/13/2008 8:31:38 AM
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That earlier work achieved high status and high votes due only to everyone inflating one anothers votes - as if we were a small cabal of back scratching idiots. It was never the case and I really resent the suggestion that it was ever so. I really don't think it is a case of "back scrathing idiots" as you so suggest. And, I am sorry you were offended by "my take" on the situation. . My thoughts are that new members are joining at a much faster momentum now then ever before. And that is absolutely GREAT news! But the result is proving to be a lower average on images. You have stated this yourself: . . 3. What has happened to the voting? Its now impossible to compete and better previous scores. . . Look how you and other members feel about this voting trend... can you imagine what it would be like to be a NEW member? I am guessing that they would have to think that their images are extremely subpar or that the site is rigged! Please don't take this wrongly. I am in no way saying that older top images don't deserve to be top images. I am saying that there are new images on the site that DESERVE to be top images, but will probably never be recognized as such because of THE NEW VOTING AVERAGE!!!!!!!!! Edited to add emphasis
_________________________ HappySnap's Profile
I like poetry, long walks on the beach, and pokin' dead things with a stick.
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Posted 2/13/2008 9:54:35 AM
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| Richard and Glynn, please correct me if I'm wrong. Paula, I don't think these guys and myself included are concerned too much with averages. I'm pleased with the averages that most of my photos have been able to attain. Considering Glynn's and Richard's success here at DA, I'm sure they're also pleased with their photos' averages. What really disturbs me is when a photo is averaging 8+ after 30 votes and then all of a sudden you get a 5 or 6. It's not disturbing because it's going to bring the average down. It's disturbing because it's like an act of vandalism. Someone hides behind a mask of anonymity and spits on your image and there's no accountability. In most cases the RFC is ignored and the vandal is off scott free. There's members here that give out nothing more than 6s and 7s on every image. I see it everyday. They're making a mockery out of the system. I'm not saying that every low vote is suspicious, but you cannot deny the fact that some are.
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Posted 2/13/2008 10:04:18 AM
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| hmm... . 3. What has happened to the voting? Its now impossible to compete and better previous scores. I will repost the above. Correct me if I am wrong... are SCORES and AVERAGES not the same?!? . . Will, you say: It's not disturbing because it's going to bring the average down. . . Curious... why do you let something that has no effect on you, bother you so much?
_________________________ HappySnap's Profile
I like poetry, long walks on the beach, and pokin' dead things with a stick.
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Posted 2/13/2008 10:34:33 AM
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I agree to what Glynn has to say about masked members.....
A person who loses god loses everything, and a person who gets god gets everything.
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Posted 2/13/2008 10:40:07 AM
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Curious... why do you let something that has no effect on you, bother you so much?
Well, it does have some effect. But to answer your question, that's just me I guess. If I saw an old lady getting mugged, it would bother me, even though it doesn't directly effect me.
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Posted 2/13/2008 10:43:03 AM
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