 Posted 7/24/2007 9:45:32 AM
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WARNING
Keep Thread on Topic - One more off topic post and I will delete all the post that are OUT OF CONTEXT. WE
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Posted 7/24/2007 11:09:11 AM
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I don't believe the problem the OP raised - images being voted too high and misleading the entering photog into believing it is a much better photo than it really is - would exist if we had a system that incorporated some of the aspects of the other photo site mentioned in this thread by the OP. DPChallenge.com has far less transparency, and, to the best of my knowledge, no one has ever complained of what is being called the "cruel hoax" over there.
Tonka (7/24/2007)
As far as DP or anywhere else..arent there only votes on images entered into the challenges?...my only point being that here,,,ALL of the images get to get votes which in themselves are each and every one of them,,,,,Comments.....a good thing!  ..
Maybe I am misunderstanding on my part don't know..feel free to correct me..lol something I am quite used to by now..  At DPChallenge.com images entered in the contests can receive comments from the voters, but they don't have "quick comments". And they don't have to come at the time the vote is cast. A voter can go back to an image and add a comment any time before the voting closes at the end of the week. And comments can come after voting ends. Most of the post voting comments are more congrats than cons crit, but not always because frequently the entering photog will reveal more info about the shot after the voting, and there will be a free back-and-forth of questions and advice at that time. And they have the Critique Club which allows an entering photog to request a detailed critique from a panel of volunteers with some expertise. As here, many of the voluntary comments are simply compliments. Most people are willing to explain what their comment meant if asked to do so but this takes place after voting is complete, and is totally free of the justification aspect because the photog never knows how the voter scored the shot.
Tonka (7/24/2007)
But like on eyefetch, you may get a comment on one two or a few of your photos or you may not..here there is at least one comment in one form on all of my images... Not an empirical fact but as a general observation, I think images entered into contests at DPChallenge.com get more comments than at either eyefetch or here at DA. Even my weakest entries get about a half dozen comments by the end of voting. Images with middle-of-the-pack to slightly-above-average scores will usually get a dozen or more.
Tonka (7/24/2007)
..... oh and btw...how can you recognize photos by style here but this does not apply at DP or anywhere else? just curious...  The possibility of recognizing a photographer's work by their style is always present, but at DPChallenge.com there are so many more people involved, many with similar styles, and some imitating the styles of past winners, or of their mentors, that identification by style is very unreliable.
There is a rule at DPChallenge.com that prohibits the use of an image in more than one contest.
As Richard says, it is nice that a variety of photo contests are available on the internet. But that shouldn't mean that one site can't adopt some of the aspects of another when it is trying to improve itself. And the value of that variety is for naught if photographers don't, at the very least, investigate several sites to see which is the best for them, and which parts of some others could make your favorite site better. If images getting scored too high and giving the photog false expectations is a problem here at DA, maybe we should look to other sites where that is not a problem and see if we can find a solution.
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Posted 7/24/2007 11:24:25 AM
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WillPat (7/24/2007)
....see if we can find a solution.
Simply, no votes should be discarded.
And, multiple entries of identical images should be banned. Or, the author could be expelled from the contest website. I prefer the former, but the latter is okay, if needed.
It isn't the reason I started this post, but in a recent voting session, when I saw the fourth identical image of Monarch butterflies, I tried to lower my vote to indicate my objection to the abuse and mockery of common sense website behavior conduct.
Unfortunately, my vote was tossed out. This "joke" continues. WillPat's top 12. This "joke" may have started out as a well intentioned exaggeration to prove a point. Now that we've all seen it, it's time to stop.
edited to fix links
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Posted 7/24/2007 2:09:59 PM
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Well Richard we agree on "no votes should be discarded" but I'd amend the "And, multiple entries of identical images should be banned." to And, multiple entries of essentially identical images should be banned.
I've long said that one image is enough. If you shoot 100 shots of a sunset over a 1/2 hour period enter one in one category. This tactic of changing categories and slightly cropping stuff should end. Pick your best and enter it. If you don't like it later delete (not archive) it and enter another from that shoot.
Chris
There are 10 types of people in this world, those that understand binary and those that don't.
My Web Page
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Posted 7/24/2007 2:32:46 PM
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wemor (7/23/2007)
As an aside here,the voting scale for the Overall Site Votes as well as each individuals voting distribution chart has lost a GREAT DEAL of accuracy since the change was made to not retain votes on Archived Images.
Now when an image is archived, the votes are discarded from the statistics. This has caused an even greater shift in the site scale towards the higher end of the range. The chief cause being that the votes on archived images are lost now just the same as auto deleted image's votes are. Both of these actions tend to discard many more lower votes than higher votes from the calculations causing the charts to yield an unrealistic voting picture. WE  We (including myself) should let Wright make the decisions around here! I had not considered this, but you are absolutely right on about this and it is probably the reason this phenomenon has been happening lately ...
The history cannot stick around forever otherwise it will bog the system down, but perhaps we can either:
- Always accept votes 4 and above
- Accept all votes beyond 15, but not all the way to 150
- or something else like this
Edited to add:
Wait, wait ... maybe this is not correct ... I got my mind going in the same direction but the deletion of the history on archived images may not be impacting this as I thought.
When a vote is cast, the system looks just at the previous votes on THAT image, not all images, to figure out if the vote is fair. The collusion detection, obviously, only looks at active images, but it looks frequently. The archive determination mechanism looks at the image rating (archived or not) so this piece is not impacted.
Eric
DailyAwards.com
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Posted 7/24/2007 2:33:58 PM
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~ (7/24/2007)
Well Richard we agree on "no votes should be discarded" but I'd amend the "And, multiple entries of identical images should be banned." to And, multiple entries of essentially identical images should be banned.
I've long said that one image is enough. If you shoot 100 shots of a sunset over a 1/2 hour period enter one in one category. This tactic of changing categories and slightly cropping stuff should end. Pick your best and enter it. If you don't like it later delete (not archive) it and enter another from that shoot.
I would agree that a particular capture (a unique digital image) not be used more than once in the contest. A possible exception could be conversion to b&w, as that does change the presentation significantly.
But, I disagree on your expanded restriction. If there is an image that fits exceptionally well in landscape, for example, and another shot from the same (shoot, outing, location, county, state, country, day, month, year, etc.) which fits exceptionally well in the sunset category, for example, then there's no reason to prohibit that entry.
I will often go for several days without capturing a first rate image. Then, all of a sudden, in a matter of an hour or so, during magical light, I might get five or more quality images (landscape, wildlife, nature, etc.) from the same shoot. Different images, but from the same shoot.
If you are saying there should be some kind of artificial restriction of images submitted from any particular shooting location, then I must strongly disagree. It's not a policy which could be enforced, nor should it be.
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Posted 7/24/2007 2:39:25 PM
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Admin (7/24/2007)
[quote]...perhaps we can either:
- Always accept votes 4 and above
- Accept all votes beyond 15, but not all the way to 150
- or something else like this
Yes, that would be helpful. Maybe accept all votes up to 30 votes. That should be fair. Then, after 30 votes, always accept votes 4 and above.
But, I'm willing to accept any move in these directions. Thanks for considering some changes.
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Posted 7/24/2007 2:46:27 PM
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If you haven't refer back to my original post and the edit - I jumped the gun a bit.
Still, I have always maintained that the exact thresholds were not decided with absolute certainty. There is room to move these if the general population feels there is need. Everyone here has a better view of this than do I as you experience the way the voting is going on a regular basis.
Eric
DailyAwards.com
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Posted 7/24/2007 3:00:05 PM
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