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RE: Macro (Help with bugs )

lil_nitelite — Tue, 13 May 2008 08:57:43 GMT

I have been working a lot with this both with bugs and flowers and every shot makes me learn more. I do have a question for you Glynn, what kind of equipment do you use? I have a sigma 105mm 2.8 as well a Nikkor 50mm 1.8 I have been trying to find their "sweet spot" but still having trouble on the "bug front". Any suggestions for equipment would be incredibly helpful. Also I wouldnt mind getting an extension tube, which is the best one for the money? Thanks

RE: Macro (Help with bugs )

Glynn — Sat, 10 May 2008 13:48:19 GMT

The best macro advice I was ever given came in the form of a critique. I can't even remember the exact shot, it was a macro, very nice composition - but the subject of the shot was a little soft. I was given a low vote along with the memorable(for me)words

"Above all else, a macro MUST be sharp".

And thats the secret - the Holy Grail of Macro is perfect focus and dof.

RE: Macro (Help with bugs )

Sunnyside Sandy — Fri, 09 May 2008 14:42:03 GMT

Excellent feedback Chris!! Hat's off to you!! Very well done!!!

Really good point by Kiwi too about smell and chemicals. Let's face it, we don't "really" know what senses these little guys have but I'd imagine they have many more than humans as they are under much more threat from preditors.

I managed to get the Raynox Micro-Explorerer CM-3500 set of lenses last November - mixed feelings about them to date though....... I guess I'm really only starting to use them now as most of the bugs were gone by the time I got them. ( 5 month wait from a Dutch company! :w00t:)

There are three lenses in this kit - 6x, 12x and 24x.

My Camera has decent Macro capabilities for what it is - I can use the 6x, even hand-held. The 12x needs to be used with a tri-pod and I've not had "any" success with the 24x during the very limited time I've used it to date - still I guess the bug season is in early stages over here..... so I'm kinda hopeful. :)

Have you (Chris) or anyone else had any experience of these lenses? Any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated!

RE: Macro (Help with bugs )

bhasmang — Fri, 09 May 2008 12:23:42 GMT

Excellent post Chris, I am sure its going to help us a long way while shooting insects and animals from now on......... and Joanna yes I know about that perfume thing, its really important but very few people know about its importance..... very well said.

RE: Macro (Help with bugs )

Tonka — Thu, 08 May 2008 20:27:27 GMT

[quote][b]~ (5/8/2008)[/b][hr]Hey Tonks,
I love to fish for shark... Wanna go?[/quote]

Sure I'll try it but I am bringin my gun..

LOL...:D

RE: Macro (Help with bugs )

snap — Thu, 08 May 2008 19:56:52 GMT

[quote][b]~ (5/8/2008)[/b][hr]Hey Tonks,
I love to fish for shark... Wanna go?[/quote] I have never done that but my son -inlaw always makes 3-4 trips a summer , I might just have to go .

RE: Macro (Help with bugs )

snap — Thu, 08 May 2008 19:53:07 GMT

[quote][b]Tonka (5/8/2008)[/b][hr]Wow that was a great list..

also, try and approach what you see with the awe of a child..the innocence and wonder of macro makes me giddy and I tell ya, when I get like that it is like I am one with nature..

Usually at this point, who cares about the picture ..I have had the blessing of a butterfly dancing about my head , round and round in circles spelling greetings with the wing pattern....

As I was down in the grass at the edge of my garden..a small beautiful blue dragonfly perched and reperched several times until I finally let the camera hang in my curiosity of it's repetative departure and then return to the same dead flower stalk.

I had worked my way closer and closer until I was right next to it. I slowly raised my hand as I just got this feeling it might climb on to my finger,,never before had I gotten this close (except for when they are brand new with still wet wings ...I like to leave them alone because I think they must feel very vulnerable at this stage and I do not wish to disturb them)
anyway, it did not climb upon my hand but, it allowed me to "pet" it..:w00t:
so totally cool I was flyin myself for several days afterward..

Neither one of these times yielded me award winners...Who Cares?!!! my life was awarded by being able to get outside myself and visit their world. :D

okay..sorry I couldn't contribute much..I usually always have kids running and yelling behind me...so bugs usually do not appreciate that and tell me they won't pose because if they do, they will end up in a glass jar gagging and choking for air while starving because grass is just not a well balanced meal :hehe:.[/quote]:D Yes I must agree it is an awsome thing to get so close to wild life ,nature is amazing and trying to capture it is a passion most of us may never capture the true beauty of it all but the pleasure is in the trying & hopes that you just might with this shot .:D

RE: Macro (Help with bugs )

snap — Thu, 08 May 2008 19:48:05 GMT

[quote][b]Kiwi (5/8/2008)[/b][hr][color="purple"]I just like to add to Chris's comprehensive list, do NOT wear perfume, aftershave lotion etc try and have your smell as natural as possible. Good Luck[/color].[/quote] Thanks Kiwi ,I never use the stuff ,I am chemically senesitive ,and it is bad for me so I know what the animals would think of it .:)run for your life :D

RE: Macro (Help with bugs )

snap — Thu, 08 May 2008 19:43:10 GMT

Thank you so much Chris ,you have given me a lot of info & I am sure others will benifet from it as well . I too use a point & shoot Panasonic DMC-FZ18 , it is a new cross over camera and the macro is said to be good by reviews . I use manual settings & DOF was important in doing my water drops ,I used a shallow DOF 2.8 what would you suggest for bugs ? Shutter speed ,what range is middle of the road so to speek ? I was wondering if I should bracket ,I have an auto setting that will take 3 shots very quickly , it is a fast camera ,or burst is unlimited . I like getting as much info as possiable before I start tweeking , once one has a starting point the tweeking is a lot easier . Your tips on how to get close to wild life are very good too ,I have been playing with birds & have seen what you speek of . I am from the country and use to animals & there are lots around .Thank you again & I hope others well also share .

RE: Macro (Help with bugs )

Thu, 08 May 2008 19:42:24 GMT

Hey Tonks,
I love to fish for shark... Wanna go?

RE: Macro (Help with bugs )

Tonka — Thu, 08 May 2008 19:07:13 GMT

Last time I went fishing was up at the thousand islands...couldn't ever go without the Mepps..

lol..man it has been awhile....of course, they always made me clean em...ugh.

great now I wanna go on a motorcycle, boating, or fishing trip..geesh..

sorry off topic , excusing myself now..

RE: Macro (Help with bugs )

Thu, 08 May 2008 19:02:25 GMT

[quote][b]Tonka (5/8/2008)[/b][hr]Wow that was a great list..

also, try and approach what you see with the awe of a child..the innocence and wonder of macro makes me giddy and I tell ya, when I get like that it is like I am one with nature..

Usually at this point, who cares about the picture ..I have had the blessing of a butterfly dancing about my head , round and round in circles spelling greetings with the wing pattern....

As I was down in the grass at the edge of my garden..a small beautiful blue dragonfly perched and reperched several times until I finally let the camera hang in my curiosity of it's repetative departure and then return to the same dead flower stalk.

I had worked my way closer and closer until I was right next to it. I slowly raised my hand as I just got this feeling it might climb on to my finger,,never before had I gotten this close (except for when they are brand new with still wet wings ...I like to leave them alone because I think they must feel very vulnerable at this stage and I do not wish to disturb them)
anyway, it did not climb upon my hand but, it allowed me to "pet" it..:w00t:
so totally cool I was flyin myself for several days afterward..

Neither one of these times yielded me award winners...Who Cares?!!! my life was awarded by being able to get outside myself and visit their world. :D

okay..sorry I couldn't contribute much..I usually always have kids running and yelling behind me...so bugs usually do not appreciate that and tell me they won't pose because if they do, they will end up in a glass jar gagging and choking for air while starving because grass is just not a well balanced meal :hehe:.[/quote]

And some wonder why we shoot nature.... THAT is the reason

RE: Macro (Help with bugs )

Thu, 08 May 2008 19:00:42 GMT

Wow Kiwi, It never crossed my mind! Of course. I do know that if you are fishing and spill sunblock it can kill the fishing like pronto. I did it once. We were on the Kingfiish hooked up and slaying them then someone spilled sunblock and on the sidescan you could see them scatter. Rather remarkable to see actually. (curiously enough, WD40 is an attractant) I also know that that regular detergent enhances uv reflectance an Deer see well in the lower wave lengths. Given that many insects identify flowers (there are uv patterns on flowers that we don't see) by UV (notably Bees) I'd imagine that would be a factor. An interesting link can be found [b]Here[/b]

Good call!

RE: Macro (Help with bugs )

Tonka — Thu, 08 May 2008 18:59:55 GMT

Wow that was a great list..

also, try and approach what you see with the awe of a child..the innocence and wonder of macro makes me giddy and I tell ya, when I get like that it is like I am one with nature..

Usually at this point, who cares about the picture ..I have had the blessing of a butterfly dancing about my head , round and round in circles spelling greetings with the wing pattern....

As I was down in the grass at the edge of my garden..a small beautiful blue dragonfly perched and reperched several times until I finally let the camera hang in my curiosity of it's repetative departure and then return to the same dead flower stalk.

I had worked my way closer and closer until I was right next to it. I slowly raised my hand as I just got this feeling it might climb on to my finger,,never before had I gotten this close (except for when they are brand new with still wet wings ...I like to leave them alone because I think they must feel very vulnerable at this stage and I do not wish to disturb them)
anyway, it did not climb upon my hand but, it allowed me to "pet" it..:w00t:
so totally cool I was flyin myself for several days afterward..

Neither one of these times yielded me award winners...Who Cares?!!! my life was awarded by being able to get outside myself and visit their world. :D

okay..sorry I couldn't contribute much..I usually always have kids running and yelling behind me...so bugs usually do not appreciate that and tell me they won't pose because if they do, they will end up in a glass jar gagging and choking for air while starving because grass is just not a well balanced meal :hehe:.

RE: Macro (Help with bugs )

Kiwi — Thu, 08 May 2008 17:34:33 GMT

[color="purple"]I just like to add to Chris's comprehensive list, do NOT wear perfume, aftershave lotion etc try and have your smell as natural as possible. Good Luck[/color].

RE: Macro (Help with bugs )

Thu, 08 May 2008 16:03:38 GMT

Well since my camera is a point and shoot I am left with a close up set or the built in macro function (which I HATE and almost never use). Having said all that.

In general terms, Macro is all about controlling DOF. To little and it turns out bad too much and it becomes distracting. Now you could say that about any shot right? Well in a Macro shot all of the effects are amplified. With my camera I am forced to shoot at an ISO of 100 or 200 max. which on a nice day with thin clouds gives me f5.6 at 250 to 300mm or yielding a 4 to 7mm DOF when shooting 1/400th of a sec. The long and short of it is that you don't have a lot of space to work with.

I shoot everything on manual, focus, aperture, and shutter speed and I under expose about 1/2 stop.

If hand held which is more often the case I breath in and focus on the leading edge of my image's DOF then slowly lean into the shot snapping just before the center of the DOF hits the eyes. I say just before because by the time my reaction time kicks in I'm at the eye. If you are shooting Jpg and your camera can give you numerous shots in a short period of time I'd do that but I usually shoot Raw and the interval is measure in seconds. In most cases I try to place my feet at a 45 degree angle to the shot so that I have equal stability on both horizontal planes, since I shoot all macros through the viewfinder my height establishes the vertical stability. When possible, and I know it can't always be done, attempt to place yourself at the targets height. Stand if the target is high, drop to your knees if the shot is in the middle, lay down if it is low. The goal is the same build a good base to keep the camera as steady as possible. My goal is to have the DOF cover from the antenna through the back of the head (on any living creature if you got the eye sharp the the viewer's eye will find it and half the battle is over). If I have the light and can go to F8 things are a bit simpler since the goal is to capture the image with sharpness through the thorax. Kore often than not when I err it is to the rear of the target which means that the antennae are not in focus.

There are times where I use a tripod (especially with spiders and other fairly stationary insects (yes I know a spider is not an insect)). In that case I have both a ball head, and a focus table that allows me to crank the camera fore and aft by 4 inches. On my tripod the angle of the post that the head is mounted to and each of the legs can be individually set so that it can be configured as a level tripod with a center post set at up to a horizontal position. It's very flexible but in this position the stability suffers. One last thing about tripods... If you have a tripod where the legs can be locked into position try using it as a bipod, pull the third leg up and pivot on the remaining two legs, it works really well. If they don't lock then all is not lost just use a bungee cord with a ball on each end attached to the center post to keep the short from flopping around. Tape works but it's a PITA.

Let's talk about approaching an insect.Those of you that want to approach any wildlife listen up. Like all living creatures (ok maybe not plants) you have to assume that they know that you are there and that you movements will be sensed as either aggressive or passive. Not to sound like the horse whisperer or something but just like you have the innate ability to sense danger they have the same ability, just like you they have clues that you work from they have clues that they work from. The goal is to minimize your signals, respect theirs and feel you way through the approach. I have a few rules and I'll try to separate the ones that apply mostly to insects and which are most applicable to animals, most are just logical (BTW most can be applied to people as well):

1. No fast movements. (Both)
2. Watch their movements as every living creature has a tell just before they move. On a bird it will be a movement at the shoulders and if pressed a lean forward, a Lizard bobbing of the head, a squirrel gets clicks, a dragonfly gets horizontal and the wings come back and up... You get the idea. It is your goal to either back off a bit or hold your ground until they calm a bit then press forward. (Both)
3. Either get rid of the camera strap or tie it up. I use one of those rubber bands for the hair, it works well. This is true for anything that might flop around loose in the breeze. If you have long hair tie it back medium hair put a hat on. (Both)
4. Talk to them. ( I don't know if it works with insects, most likely not, but it does with birds, mammals, and people) Face it, rarely does a predator approach the prey and make a soothing sound. Never! Try to think like their prey and do the opposite.
5. Approach with the camera either at for face or very near it. I wish I could count the number of shots I missed because I forgot to do this. If need be back up and put the camera to your face an start your approach all over. (both)
6. Be aware of where your shadow is. To them you are one huge animal (predator).Your shadow approaching is a huge signal. If you want them in the shadow to cut down on the harshness of the light then approach get the shadow on them early in the approach where your distance is makes you no threat.(insects)
7. Thank them when you are done.
8. Pick up one piece of trash when you leave (in addition to any that you might have created).

Now 7 and 8 aren't necessary to get the shot but it's the least you can do for their time. Hey, it takes less time than getting a modeling release.

I'm sure there are a million other things to think about and some day I'll figure them out but where I am at this point in my skills these seem to have the most impact. While it may seem like a lot to think about you would be surprised at how many of the things become nature quickly once you put yourself in the target's position.

Before I close, I have yet to have any living thing be frightened by a flash with the exception of humans, odd huh? If you want to use artificial lighting then I have some pointers there as well but it's best to leave well enough alone until you get your head around these.

If you give your camera/lens info I'm sure that there are many that can give you a number of detailed instructions listen because every camera requires a slightly different technique, my ramblings are for the requirements for my camera (slow) I'm sure technology resolves you from needing to follow many of these rules.

RE: Macro (Help with bugs )

Rocket — Thu, 08 May 2008 12:37:09 GMT

Hi Snap,

Before we can help you perhaps you can let us know what equipment you have.

I have taken most of my macro's with a Canon 400D and a 60mm Macro lens. Sometimes I use extension tubes.

If you let us know what camera etc you are using we can advise accordingly.

Cheers

Ron

Macro (Help with bugs )

snap — Thu, 08 May 2008 06:01:47 GMT

I have recently started to take bug , macro shots can anyone please tell me what I should be aiming for ? Should the eyes of the bug be in good focus ? what can I do in post editing to improve my images ? what is the norm in post , crop , contrast , sharpen ,or should I be doing more to inhance my images . I am aiming for the best out of the camera shots , with only basic post work , is this what most of you do ?