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RE: Reporting votes

wemor — Thu, 15 May 2008 12:00:03 GMT

[quote][b]lil_nitelite (5/15/2008)[/b][hr]One more thing to add, none of these images are new, the newest one was posted 3 days ago and that was only 1 image, the rest were saturday and sunday.[/quote]

I certainly would consider images posted in the last 4 to 5 days as "new entries". A voter at or near the buffer during their last voting session would likely hit a high proportion of those images. WE

RE: Reporting votes

lil_nitelite — Thu, 15 May 2008 11:24:50 GMT

One more thing to add, none of these images are new, the newest one was posted 3 days ago and that was only 1 image, the rest were saturday and sunday.

RE: Reporting votes

lil_nitelite — Thu, 15 May 2008 11:22:19 GMT

Maybe I phrased that wrong. I do like votes as well, and also really like critique most of all so I can be a better photog. All of the votes from this person on my images are within minutes of eachother (1-2 minutes 3 at max). As I said, I know my images arent coming up one after another, so lets say my images came up more than most, with 6-7 images of eachother, 1 of mine for 6 of anothers, if thats the case, this person is giving about 2-3 seconds an image, just long enough to press 2 buttons on the mouse, as well, every vote is the same with no variance. I am not as concerned with one or the other individually but combined that IS a concern, at least to me.

RE: Reporting votes

wemor — Thu, 15 May 2008 11:02:31 GMT

[quote][b]lil_nitelite (5/15/2008)[/b][hr]I recieved 8 new votes in the last hour or so. They are the same vote and all from the same person within minutes of eachother. How is it possible for someone to vote so fast? [/quote]

What is the amount of time you think should be spent voting on an image? It is never a race but one can vote images at a reasonable pace and be accurate in their assessment.

Members voting at or near the end of the voting buffer will be presented with a very high proportion of new entries. This is a normal occurrence. I have received votes on 3 of my nine active images in the past hour too. There is certainly nothing there to indicate any type voting misconduct.

Personally, I an happy to receive the votes. Many thanks to all the voters at Daily Awards. WE

RE: Reporting votes

lil_nitelite — Thu, 15 May 2008 10:41:24 GMT

OK, makes sense, thanks, another question and this is more of a stumper than the last one for me. I recieved 8 new votes in the last hour or so. They are the same vote and all from the same person within minutes of eachother. How is it possible for someone to vote so fast? I know my images dont come up one after the other and they arent new or even added in the last few days. Unless this person is voting in .4 seconds per photo, how is this possible? The dilemma Im facing is that this is a higher weighted person that is voting and if all they are doing is going through as fast as possible and hitting a #, how is that fair? How can that be stopped?

RE: Reporting votes

jessa81 — Thu, 15 May 2008 07:52:37 GMT

Also, If you notice that the vote history is only for the last 30 days So if the vote that you are looking for was cast more then 30 days ago it won't show up in the image's voting history stat's only on the graph. :D

RE: Reporting votes

wemor — Thu, 15 May 2008 07:14:26 GMT

If a member deletes their account, their individual voting record is also removed from the 30 day voting detail history.

While their vote has been recorded for the image and remains in the rating calculation (and overall voting graph); the vote detail is no longer available for view because the voter's account is no longer active on the site. WE

RE: Reporting votes

lil_nitelite — Thu, 15 May 2008 06:43:28 GMT

I have a question on a similar vein. I am looking at the image stats of one of my photos, and it says for example that I have 2 "5" votes but when looking through the actual votes I only see 1 (and I checked 3 times to make sure I didnt miss it). If this vote was removed due to whatever reason (lots of people reporting, unfairness, etc) why is it also not removed from the stats bar graph? Or is it? Am I reading this wrong? Thank you.

RE: Reporting votes

Kiwi — Thu, 08 May 2008 17:21:35 GMT

[color="purple"]Yep, I voted for three days in a row and ended up voting on 7 photos from one particular photographer in one session. I don't think there is any way round it except spacing out the number of photos that are uploaded at any one time[/color].

RE: Reporting votes

Thu, 08 May 2008 09:17:29 GMT

As I attempted to explain earlier, if someone has voted on every image in the database the previous day then every image presented to them that day will be new images. There is no way around it.

RE: Reporting votes

Tonka — Thu, 08 May 2008 07:54:14 GMT

Okay so another issue here is that how come the same voter will hit a large percentage of your images in a short time...where as other voters will only get to vote on one or two of your images over a longer period of time..

I dunno... sorry..

RE: Reporting votes

cameraguybob — Thu, 08 May 2008 06:45:36 GMT

I guess the problem for me has been that I always was around a structured system of judging . Understanding that some may have little interest or no passion in some categories . Yet I will find a vote of a 5 as an individual who took the time to join and upload an image should receive. I am constantly receiving votes that are so off the mark for what I see that they have put forward , how long they have been in , voting history that %'s are so far off site stats. and also much to do with sabotage at all levels .
Not just in score , but to pollute the climate , destroy hard work by many that goes unnoticed and also creativity is compromised because they would rather create hurt and destruction. There realistically has to be a gate in which an voter weight under 50 will no longer count for anything but standard . Only at which point would you then take an Olympic style vote to signature for all votes that have been cast and will be cast in those criteria of voter weights which qualify . Voter weights in the areas under a 100 level tend to be the worst area . Their skills are marginal and it becomes to hard for them to see their own images taking 6's and so that's what they will vote . Those folks vote, but miss to many times the avg .mark it is then thrown out . There are some in this same voter strength that have come to me and said , " Can you teach me ? " . Yes , certainly . They will learn because they have drive to have stuck through some unwarranted beat downs here . I get that they are somehow voting more images , but when that member can vote just 3 wedding images in 5 minutes and yet none of you have cast votes on all 3 images either in one or multiple sessions . The vote is flawed by to large of a degree of people who are not going to perform with any real professional attitude or fairness . Bobby

RE: Reporting votes

Leighann — Thu, 08 May 2008 05:52:49 GMT

Excellent post, Chris. I agree with everything you said. I'm half afraid to even vote nowadays.

Bob, I don't pay as much attention to the votes I get as you. I do know that just in the past few weeks, I've had 5 or 6 images doing really well and maintaining a low 8 average (signature) then, it seems the longer they're in the voting pool, the lower the average goes. I get an awful lot of 6's and more 5's than I've ever received. There are a couple who are unmasked who routinely score my shots 1 or 2 points below their average. I just always attributed it to the fact that they didn't care for the subject (I shoot an awful lot of birds) or as in the case with very low weight ppl, they just haven't gotten used to the site or they are inexperienced, etc. I never thought about it being target voting.

I don't even RFC anymore because, frankly, it would take up way too much of my time and, what does it really matter anyway? It's all subjective anyways and what really matters is what you think of your shots - at least in this environment where nothing is really won (other than a sense of pride). It sounds like you have an awful lot of success and experience in photography so that should not be an issue (the pride part, I mean).

Here I go rambling again but the point I'm trying to make is that I think it happens to all of us. I don't want to think there is target voting going on but if there is, it seems to be happening to all of us. I have gotten upset before, I won't lie. But I've decided to just enjoy DA and learn as much as I can and try not to dwell on the negative. There's way more positive here in my opinion.

Leighann

RE: Reporting votes

Thu, 08 May 2008 05:50:14 GMT

None of what you have described seems unusual to me. Lately I have been voting on a average of 30 images a day. With 5000+ images in the pool it is unlikely I will hit many of your images. Given that there are only a few members over 200 then I can see where it would drop off quickly.

There are some members that vote on many images every day so they have fewer images that they can go through before they hit one of yours, they are, in fact seeing the freshest images in the database. I too find that the first voters to vote on my images but I always thought it to be because they are voting at the end of of the buffer.

As to what they they choose to vote, I can't speak to that.

RE: Reporting votes

cameraguybob — Thu, 08 May 2008 05:09:17 GMT

Case in point was my portrait image Allison .

RE: Reporting votes

cameraguybob — Thu, 08 May 2008 05:08:02 GMT

Yes both ways . There will be a few images that have upwards of 60 votes . Weights of 200(3 total ) or more in first 16 votes and three weeks of everyone else. Some images immediate post and hit by the same tandem of voters. Simply two voters went through 35 images in 2 hrs. Where as no member that I can tell with weight of 200 or more has voted on 60 % of those same images. Some have been up 40 plus days . Almost all of my images will go to archive on their own .

RE: Reporting votes

Tonka — Thu, 08 May 2008 04:37:00 GMT

It sounded to me like he is getting high votes from many members but then there are a few of the same members who come along and give 5's and 6's every time to images that are getting 7's and 8's..these lower votes are always in the first fifteen and from the same people...

?? Did I get any of that right?

RE: Reporting votes

Thu, 08 May 2008 03:49:48 GMT

I too am trying to understand the depth of your series of posts let's see if I can restate it then you can tell me if I got it right.

Your concerns are that an image once posted gathers a bunch of votes right off and a good number of them are from higher weighted voters. After some period of time the higher weighted voters stop voting and the lower weighted voters are the only ones that are voting. Good so far?

I am hearing you say that you think this is done on purpose to thwart your efforts to achieve some level of awards, primarily monthly and the holy grail a yearly. Did I get that right?

You are experiencing numerous votes from a low weighted member? Is that correct?

RE: Reporting votes

cameraguybob — Thu, 08 May 2008 02:27:19 GMT

????????????????????????? Bobby

RE: Reporting votes

Cblank — Wed, 07 May 2008 21:01:55 GMT

Robert, you are staying on DA right? Just wanted to make sure :)

RE: Reporting votes

cameraguybob — Wed, 07 May 2008 20:52:04 GMT

A message that I sent to those names and also to you . It was blocked from delivery to you . Maybe those folks will share it with you . I extended much gratitude to what seemed to be areas of thankless work so many have put in . That if they knew of others they would like to share it with they are welcome to . It has a large insight to a voting target or sabotage that happened recently . Please look in to this for me I would greatly appreciate this . Bobby

RE: Reporting votes

wemor — Wed, 07 May 2008 20:41:08 GMT

[quote][b]cameraguybob (5/7/2008)[/b][hr]I sent a very long message to other members . They received it, but you did not because I sent it through a private forum. Maybe they will share it with you .
Alan , Linda. Richard . Leighann and others . Bobby[/quote]

Sorry, I am only getting more confused. I'm not sure what this is about or where you are coming from. I don't know anything of other's private messages and I would not expect them to be shared with me. Anyway, it does not seem like I can help here. Goodnight... WE

RE: Reporting votes

cameraguybob — Wed, 07 May 2008 20:18:06 GMT

I sent a very long message to other members . They received it, but you did not because I sent it through a private forum. Maybe they will share it with you .
Alan , Linda. Richard . Leighann and others . Bobby

RE: Reporting votes

cameraguybob — Wed, 07 May 2008 20:15:29 GMT

I have put new things in front of everyone about every 2 weeks . Would they really like to see what families and babies , images can be like that are unstoppable for them to buy ? What I paid for and studied to do over 20 years and me let it come at this type of ticky tacky behavior . Wemor you lashed out at Sandy like someone in defense .
Also in that sense is why I have come to expect nothing but 7 's and an occasional 6 from you towards me . Honestly I teeter with a few images at 8 that will never stay there . I don't need to know much more than I do . Sunny is quite right over the protected territory . I surely haven' t walked your way . Yet nothing but tickey tacky shots . I am not going to put my best hi-res anything here for a determination that it will print out fine . It will and has . I am not so sure how protected my images are here or anyone's are for that matter .Bobby

RE: Reporting votes

wemor — Wed, 07 May 2008 20:11:49 GMT

[quote][b]cameraguybob (5/7/2008)[/b][hr]Wemor , your there. Is there any part of this that I laid out to you and others that will make you respond to me ? Dol I need to say this is not for me and I am not needed or wanted ? Bobby[/quote]

[quote][b]cameraguybob (5/7/2008)[/b][hr]Which it seems if they come in the right succession as a new image is posted or I have 3 images needing 6 votes for annual and I deal with 40 votes over 25 days with no one over 150 in weight voting what will it do ? The point is if you have a weight of 50 to 100 these people miss over and over by 2 every time . They should not count signature past weekly and never to annual . Use a Olympic style vote if you got to . This carriers no real validation win or lose with anyone having a vote that will not produce annual image and monthly considerations . Longevity in the community gives you a vote that can be retractedif it continually falls of the mark period . Bobby[/quote]

[quote][b]cameraguybob (5/7/2008)[/b][hr]And when I look at the images this six voted it is the same ones every time . Point how will they vote all 36 images in 2 hrs . You are no one else of weight has voted on 60 % in 40 days . Where is the patch so no one can go through a portfolio in this fashion in one fell swoop . It stinks of cheating and sabotage . I grant the post is in it's origins to this , but ultimately stands in 2 many people are voting past their abilities, taste and their unbiased opinions are to hard for them to reach as they vote in response to all of their 6 and 5 's. Bobby[/quote]

I am sorry - I am not understanding what you are asking about. I would be happy to try to answer your question but I am not sure what is being asked about... WE:cool:

RE: Reporting votes

patweeka — Wed, 07 May 2008 19:59:11 GMT

Can't wait! :kiss:

A.T.W.T.T.M.A.B. :)

RE: Reporting votes

cameraguybob — Wed, 07 May 2008 19:52:23 GMT

Hey , Patweeka I'm about to go nitey , nite . Call you tomorrow .

RE: Reporting votes

cameraguybob — Wed, 07 May 2008 19:50:40 GMT

And when I look at the images this six voted it is the same ones every time . Point how will they vote all 36 images in 2 hrs . You are no one else of weight has voted on 60 % in 40 days . Where is the patch so no one can go through a portfolio in this fashion in one fell swoop . It stinks of cheating and sabotage . I grant the post is in it's origins to this , but ultimately stands in 2 many people are voting past their abilities, taste and their unbiased opinions are to hard for them to reach as they vote in response to all of their 6 and 5 's. Bobby

RE: Reporting votes

patweeka — Wed, 07 May 2008 19:50:19 GMT

WOW Sunnyside Sandy, what a GREAT post! If he stays at DA it will be because of your words of encouragement. Thanks!

RE: Reporting votes

cameraguybob — Wed, 07 May 2008 19:42:19 GMT

Which it seems if they come in the right succession as a new image is posted or I have 3 images needing 6 votes for annual and I deal with 40 votes over 25 days with no one over 150 in weight voting what will it do ? The point is if you have a weight of 50 to 100 these people miss over and over by 2 every time . They should not count signature past weekly and never to annual . Use a Olympic style vote if you got to . This carriers no real validation win or lose with anyone having a vote that will not produce annual image and monthly considerations . Longevity in the community gives you a vote that can be retractedif it continually falls of the mark period . Bobby

RE: Reporting votes

cameraguybob — Wed, 07 May 2008 19:35:28 GMT

Wemor , your there. Is there any part of this that I laid out to you and others that will make you respond to me ? Dol I need to say this is not for me and I am not needed or wanted ? Bobby

RE: Reporting votes

wemor — Wed, 07 May 2008 19:34:33 GMT

[quote][b]Cblank (5/7/2008)[/b][hr]I am happy to see this post because I encountered the same issue, 6 votes from a person with a weight of 6 and a bunch of 5 votes with a person that has a weight of 2 on a variety of my photos. [/quote]

Unless a voter is "unmasked" it is only an assumption to say that any same weighted votes comes from one single person (especially in the lower weights).

There are 22 voters on the site with a weight of six and well in excess of 500 voters on the site with a weight of 2.

[quote][b]Sunnyside Sandy (5/7/2008)[/b][hr]However, what many fail to remember is that this is primarily a Competition Site and those with the "Voting Power" are certainly not going to welcome new threats such as Robert with open arms![/quote]

And Sandy, I feel you are just sadly mistaken - I expect [b][u]ALL[/u][/b] of the heaviest weighted members would like nothing better than to see [b][u]hundreds[/u][/b] of highly talented photographers join and actively participate in the Daily Awards site. I know I would!!! The OP is not complaining about higher weighted voters. The original post speaks of a six and a two weighted vote.

RE: Reporting votes

cameraguybob — Wed, 07 May 2008 19:18:53 GMT

What can I say Sonny , you reached right in to my heart with this . Something that has hurt and healing left in my life from losing my wife . I am not here to do anything but share . It is by all means is a fictional award that still carriers emotional overtones , I have tried to explain so many here . If you want to learn it will come from you coming to me and saying , " I like this , I want to do it ! " . I can not follow up criticism of an image that they are stinging over the vote and it be productive or not create more hurt . I am in the midst of my own tough time , other than your response many are absent in some kind of assurance in the powers that be see I have a concern and that either I fall in pecking order or disappear . I promise it would be the later before I put up the real stuff that will leave heads scratching in this community . I will take their vision somewhere else than what they have seen in portrait and wedding. Thanks so much and how can I say thanks for the stand up for me , but more important to me is the integrity and respect you demand of yourself that you answer to in the mirror when looking beyond your reflection reveals the true us . Thanks . Smile tomorrow more than you did today Sandy , I know I will ! Bobby

RE: Reporting votes

Sunnyside Sandy — Wed, 07 May 2008 19:06:06 GMT

[quote][b]bhasmang (5/7/2008)[/b][hr]Bob, it happens with everybody at some stage, keep your heart and keep up the good work. God is really great.......[/quote]

Hey Bhas - we're still trying to get over BOD over here - he is great too!! ;)

Check him out:
[url=http://www.herecomesbod.com/html/bodsDream.html]http://www.herecomesbod.com/html/bodsDream.html[/url]

(click on the play button)

RE: Reporting votes

Sunnyside Sandy — Wed, 07 May 2008 18:40:16 GMT

Some may not like this - but DA "Can Be" a fantastic [i]stepping stone[/i] to better things.

It "won't" happen for everybody of course - it's up to the individual to learn and push themselves forward .....as far as they possibly can - continuous improvement and constant learning has got to be your main aim.

Even then, you may never, ever, gain more recognition and genuine praise for your work from other than ......a few sites......if you are really lucky!

I guess, many DA voters can be inexperienced enough to recognise..... the many various inputs that make either a good or an above average photo.

However, what many fail to remember is that this is primarily a Competition Site and those with the "Voting Power" are certainly not going to welcome new threats such as Robert with open arms!

Some will protect what they consider to be "Their Empire" by looking for the most minor of faults to justify scoring down superior images.......... than either their own....or those that belong to fellow members that have been influenced into the same "Mindset".

To the outside world (and worse still - prospective members) - it can seem like something similar to a Sect. That's a worry!!

In my opinion - those that score down images of the quality that Robert Mond has been submitting know "NOTHING" about Photography and ought to hang their heads in shame...if they are for real?

Give yourself a shoogle for goodness sake!! He's probably a class and a half above the majority of photographers on DA!!!

Drive him away and then we "ALL" lose out and nobody will ever learn from him - do YOU want to learn???

Or is the [b]"threat"[/b] of such quality tooooooo much for some members to swallow??

(Robert - please don't give-up on DA!! Your photos Oooze class and quality and it's a pleasure to vote on them - keep them coming and try your best to ignore the snipers and those that are jealous of your skills!!)

"I'd love to see a DA-PRO website created - as a stepping stone for those with ambition but also to attract similar quality photographers as Robert Mond - I've no doubt that should it prove to be popular then some of the members at the top of the weights would get [i]found out[/i]!"

RE: Reporting votes

Cblank — Wed, 07 May 2008 15:13:22 GMT

I am happy to see this post because I encountered the same issue, 6 votes from a person with a weight of 6 and a bunch of 5 votes with a person that has a weight of 2 on a variety of my photos. I am a beginner and my photos are in no way outstanding ( yet :D ), but when I start getting 5's all in the span of two days it makes me wonder what is going on, especially since I had never received 5s before. I am here to learn and get some feedback but it still is disheartening when it begins to feel like people low vote on purpose. I have only been here a month, but overall I really like what DA has to offer... it is unfortunate that there are some who take away from the joys of this site. I will add that I personally have days when I vote a lot because no students visit my office hours and I get bored :P but I always try to fairly evaluate a photo before I vote (though I admit I am more careful about my voting now then I was my first few days on the site). I hope some members low voting doesn't drive away people from this site because those who can potentially be driven away are usually the ones who add to this community and the rest of us would really like to see stay :)

RE: Reporting votes

bhasmang — Wed, 07 May 2008 11:57:38 GMT

Bob, it happens with everybody at some stage, keep your heart and keep up the good work. God is really great.......

RE: Reporting votes

Tue, 06 May 2008 17:59:12 GMT

First off, nice portfolio.

With the majority of voters at 6 and below I'm not surprised, I see it often, kind of disheartening though. One thing to remember is that a small percentage high weight voters are 100 votes a day people. I know I'm not. It takes a while to get all of those votes. Most of your portraits would do well with my vote but since I average maybe 30 votes a day (recently) it will be a long time before I get to all of yours.

Your images, as you point out, are not judged by professionals so the results won't be the same as if they were. I've long thought that the results here more closely match what the average Joe thinks about my images rather than the commercial viability of my work.

I shoot my images for me, rarely print them, never for money (I wish I was that good) so to me the site is an opportunity to show how I capture the world around me. That resonates with some and turns others off, oh well. I have a list of people who's opinion I respect (yours is one (sometimes to my chagrin)) and I use them as touchstones to my work rather that the general scores.

Is DA a great place for professionals? Perhaps/Perhaps not. It really depends on if you take the feedback with your eyes wide open. I find that by posting images on different types of sites, placing them in context, and using the feedback I'm able get a good feel for what I am producing. I feel DA is a good data point as are other sites. If winning is all that is important then for your skills there are other sites that more closely fit your style. In other sites the top 10 here would be "also ran's" but the top 10 from those sites would be the same here.

You and I both know that the best judge of your work is, in the end, you. We appreciate your allowing us to see yours so that we may better ours.

RE: Reporting votes

Tonka — Tue, 06 May 2008 15:55:59 GMT

That scenario seems familiar but it was a couple of weeks ago...haven't had that lately...

imo that is quite a few sixes in a row eh? :(

RE: Reporting votes

Rocket — Tue, 06 May 2008 15:54:49 GMT

After reading your post I just had to look at your photo's. Your portraits are all great to my eyes. Full size versions are just Wow!!

I just haven't come upon them in my voting window yet but when I do they will get high votes from me.

I have not voted lately due to problems with my PC. I am using a laptop at the moment and the screen has to be at just the right angle to view properly so I am only voting when I have access to a calibrated monitor (so I can be fair with my evaluation).

We all suffer from lowball votes from newer members (and some not so new) but they all even themselves out in the end. The cream rises to the top.

Best of luck with your photo's

Cheers

Ron