DA Photo Contest Forum / Photography / Photo Tips / How "not" to respond to constructive criticism! / Latest Posts

RE: How "not" to respond to constructive criticism!

Tcall — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 23:04:37 GMT

ScottyZoozie,

excellant simple accurate way to approach this. knowing something and being right doesn't give someone the right to be rude. It only helps to alienate.

RE: How "not" to respond to constructive criticism!

ScottyZoozie — Sun, 25 May 2008 09:43:10 GMT

Constructive criticism here is just the same as writing report card comments about the kids!

Here's how I do it....
First, you always start with a positive aspect (whether it is about the child in the case of the report card, or about something you like in the image).
Then, you start the next sentence with...
1. Did you consider __________________?
2. Did you think about trying ___________________?
3. Have you tried ____________________?
4. In my opinion it needs a touch more ___________________?

Just nice ways to start the sentence...dontcha think?
That's what I do! ;)

Then I end it with...give it a go and see what you think! :) Then it gives them the option to try it out or completely ignore what I had to say. :P Which is completely their prerogative, since it is only my opinion.

When I get a comment that I am not thrilled with. I say "thank you" and "I respectfully disagree." I learned my lesson a while ago and I don't let it get to me anymore! If I do let it get to me, it doesn't come out in the reply! :D

:D

RE: How "not" to respond to constructive criticism!

Cblank — Sun, 18 May 2008 01:01:04 GMT

Glad to see the interest! I have a lot of grading to do at the moment but as soon as I get the chance I will write it. I will make an announcement when it is posted :D

RE: How "not" to respond to constructive criticism!

Kiwi — Fri, 16 May 2008 04:02:42 GMT

[color="purple"]Absolutely of use Cblank, go for it[/color].

RE: How "not" to respond to constructive criticism!

Tonka — Thu, 15 May 2008 15:26:37 GMT

Absolutely a good thing!!

Can't wait to read it..

:D

RE: How "not" to respond to constructive criticism!

Cblank — Thu, 15 May 2008 15:17:11 GMT

I agree with Sherry that it does boil down to effective communication. I am an interpersonal communication instructor at OSU. While reading this thread I thought that it might be helpful to some members in this community if I composed an article on how to effectively give and receive criticism. I could specifically gear these tips to performance in a computer mediated environment as well as a competitive environment. I could also offer examples that are specifically aimed at the criticism of photography. Does anybody think that would be of use?

RE: How "not" to respond to constructive criticism!

hahn23 — Wed, 14 May 2008 08:22:36 GMT

[color="navy"]Opinions on the caliber of images will vary amongst the higher weighted members. Hopefully, an image will receive numerous votes from Signature voters which will establish a stable score for an image. No one Signature voter can singlehandedly kill an image, or push it to the front page, for that matter. The point is.... don't take any single particular vote as the final word on an image. Other weighted votes may come along to provide a counterbalance. Sometimes, it takes patience. One should expect to get a fairly wide distribution of votes.... even on one's best images. But, it's the stable average that counts. And, that is not really established until about 30 Signature votes have been collected.

Yeah, I don't like to see heavily weighted members vote anonymously and refuse to respond to requests for comments. But, I've come to accept the inevitable[/color].

[img]http://bp2.blogger.com/_HIOXa7vRr3s/R3U5D2QwHAI/AAAAAAAAAOQ/QyAsGas6k5g/s400/Polar+bear+and+penguins.jpg[/img]

[color="navy"]The vast majority of Signature members vote with integrity.... in a fair and objective manner. This preponderance of good people relative to malicious voters will carry the day..... as long as everyone continues to cast votes[/color].

RE: How "not" to respond to constructive criticism!

jessa81 — Wed, 14 May 2008 07:45:23 GMT

I would love to recieve constructive critism! I am getting far to many 5 and 6 votes from mid to high weighted members ( generally weight :50 - 400 ). I am sure some of my pictures don't deserve higher than a 7 average and if they get several 6' and 5's I'll just delete it and move on. The thing that drives me mad is when I have an image that is averaging mid to high 7 or higher and then someone with a heavy enough weight to cause damage slaps a 5 on it for no apparent reason and ignores RFC. It's been happening far too often lately. Really, I think each of my top images has atleast one or two 5 or 6 from a high weighted member with no explanationa and no response to RFC. WHY???

So yes I would LOVE to receive some constructive critism instead of getting a low vote without ANY explanation. That is not at all helpful and just plain mean.

RE: How "not" to respond to constructive criticism!

Lit — Wed, 14 May 2008 07:32:47 GMT

Without constructive criticism and suggestions, I would not improve. I don't upload photo's because I think they are amazing, I do it because I enjoy them and I would like to learn other photographers views on them, and I welcome opinions and critiques.

RE: How "not" to respond to constructive criticism!

Sherry — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:29:13 GMT

I think it all just boils down to effective Communication!

Some people can do it quite easily, others struggle.

A favorite quote of mine:

When you know something, say what you know. When you don;t know something, say that you don't know. That is knowledge!

RE: How "not" to respond to constructive criticism!

SkyBlueRose — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 08:21:13 GMT

So true, you learn from giving them too, and it is hard to give at times, especially in the beginning. I try to do what some members here have done when giving me feedback on images that have room for improvement. First I say something I like about it. I can only speak for myself but, if I see one I really like but there is something I feel needs improvement, many times I will give feedback because it has potential. Then I state what I think would make it better. Being a good critic is an art in itself. I joined a couple of months ago which was just about the time this semester started. I am taking a Humanities class and we are learning how to critique objectively so I have been able to practice that here too. Not every image that comes through is a style you personally care for. It is important to first consider the technical aspects of it and then how it makes you feel.

What Linda just said about it not being always easy to give them either reminded me of my advanced B&W printing class. For that we all had to put up our before and after prints and go around the room in a group. We took notes on what we like, what we think needs improvement and whether or not we like the new one better than the original. Many times you are doing this to friends images because they were in a different group. Then the instructor goes down the line to each print and goes around the room asking the groups what their opinions were. It was hard to state what needs improvement, especially if it was a friends or someones who you know will take it hard. The worst is when you had to say you think the original was better. If it was a dedicated student they probably spent many hours working on the technique.

Linda

RE: How "not" to respond to constructive criticism!

Tonka — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 06:16:22 GMT

Great points Linda,

that sounds like a fun class btw, I have not heard of that before..hmmm I think I will check into it..:D..

Okay anyway, I want to add to Linda's comments with this..

I hope people realize that it is not easy either, to give constructive criticism.. People must realize that some of us also do not wish to hurt feelings and can be quite unsure of ourselves especially when first starting out..

I dreaded that first RFC because I knew absolutely diddly about photography, here I have given a 5 or a 6 to (let's just use RH cuz I know he wont mind ;) ) one of Richard Hahn's images during my first week here at DA,,,,

Now I am voting based on the fact that a 6 is above average but not really knowing the scope of the voting scale and what the effects and implications of it are, and now I have to explain myself...lol..oh my gosh....I sweat, I can tell you.. I felt like an idiot , which perhaps some will say I still am..lol,, but I did not hit "ignore" no, I gritted my teeth and just told it the way I saw it..using no technical terms whatsoever...

But I did it. thinking back on it makes me cringe to imagine the receivers of my first critiques..lol...

the point being is that still, it takes a little something to give the feedback as well as to receive it. not only should you have thick skin to receive but thick skin to give. There is much valuable info even if someone does not quite know the technical terms and the more you give the more you learn same as the receiver..:D Those answering RFC's truly wish to help in most cases and so risk the backlash of someone they are trying to help., in other words, stick their neck out..:D..

RE: How "not" to respond to constructive criticism!

SkyBlueRose — Sun, 16 Mar 2008 23:02:54 GMT

I agree that constructive criticism is essential in becoming a better photographer. Not all, but some may be new to hearing it and need time to get a thicker skin or realize what a gift they are getting with the help. That is how it was for me in school. For the last two years I have been in a Visual Communications - Photography program where giving and receiving constructive criticism from instructors and classmates is a big part of most classes. I remember at first I use to dread critique day. I wouldn't get defensive but would feel stupid and also discouraged because I have very high expectations of myself in school. One of my first semester classes was design basics and with each assignment small or big we had to fill out a whole critique form on ourselves and in groups, for each classmates work. One of my projects I really had trouble with and spent hours trying to work it. I ended up having an unsuccessful design and the instructor gave me the option to redo it. I really felt discouraged and talked to my husband about it. He is very much a perfectionist in his profession so I asked him how he handled failures. He said simply I learn more from my failures than I do from my successes. I thought about it and decided to rework the design with that in mind. I not only reworked it but I asked for classmates help by further feedback and a couple even had me email them my thumbnails to see if I was heading in the right direction.That was a big step for me because not only did I expect a lot from myself but I had a hard time asking for help. Once you start thinking of it as a learning tool, this place is an ideal environment to be in. There are many talented photographers here and many are willing to help with critiquing and giving great suggestions for improvement. If you get defensive with someone that is trying to help, you really can't expect them to do it again.

Linda

RE: How "not" to respond to constructive criticism!

freeflower — Sat, 15 Mar 2008 09:14:05 GMT

Constructive criticism is the only way to help people learn to improve their photography. I dislike giving people low scores but on an image that I feel really deserves it, I will. Then there may come the inevitable RFC. I don't consider myself an expert by any means and I'm just learning the vocabulary of digital photography, but there are areas in which I feel I can offer some constructive criticism since I've had a lot of experience in that particular area. ie: black and white. If the response is negative, I'll be reluctant to comment any more. Why ask for being brow beaten?

If a photographer does not like the constructive criticism offered from one person, there are thousands more to choose from until to you get the desired response. I've had nothing but good results from contructive criticism offered here. Sometimes it takes many people giving the same criticism before it sinks in. I don't think even the best photographers on the site will reject constructive criticism. How do you think they got where they are?

How "not" to respond to constructive criticism!

hahn23 — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:17:21 GMT

Okay! I'll offer my best reaction to the first submission of an image to the contest. Upon the second submission, without revision, I'll not be so generous. I received this response to my comments on the 2nd submission of a poor image today. (No improvement detected in the re-submission, btw.)

[color="firebrick"]Reply for: xxxx yyyyy aaa cccc xxxx....

DO NOT Reply to this message. These are public comments. You can view/delete these comments from your account page.[/color]
[i]
[color="indigo"]"Not voting on this one again. In response to your "low vote" question, which irritates me, the composition is poor. The perspective is very poor. The light and colors are flat to bland. The degree of difficulty is low. I don't understand your category choice. I don't understand your title. This fails on many fronts. You wanted feedback.... and there it is. I've voted on this before, but I won't vote on it again, unless there are substantive improvements."[/color][/i]

[color="firebrick"]Reply by ssscccgg xxxxzzzz on 3/14/2008 2:27:23 PM[/color]

[color="darkgreen"]"Your irritation and staying anonymous is in itself a poor excuse for even writing me back and yada yada about criteria, one in particular "you just don't get it....wow...duh!! scoot... "[/color]

This is a sign of a person who does not want, nor can accept constructive criticism. I'm not always right, but I am very generous with vote and I try to offer suggestions for improvement all the time. If someone spits in my face, I will be less charitable.